Wednesday, December 15, 2010

Happy Holidays

The office will be closed for the holidays on December 24, 2010 and will re-open on January 3, 2011. On behalf of all the entire staff, have a very happy holiday season.

Monday, December 6, 2010

2010 AGM

Wednesday, November 24, 2010



I'd be willing to bet if the membership was asked how busy the turf department is in November, probably every last one of them would say, not very!

The course is closed. So what is there for us to do other than bring in the flags, tee blocks and coolers and go home for the winter, right?

Well................actually........I would argue that November may be the busiest month of the entire year. Not only do we have much more furniture to bring in than the three previously mentioned, every piece of furniture is cleaned, inspected for damage which needs to be repaired or replaced before next spring, and inventoried. With the small maintenance shop we have we need to carefully store as much as we can inside so we can get at it through the winter months to refurbish with paint or urethane and do repairs. Unfortunately some items will have to be stored outdoors.

The leaves continue to fall and we are constantly having to clean up branches and sticks so the vacuum can do it's job without getting damaged by the downed branches. Many tight areas such as bunkers, around gardens, and steep hills like the left side of number 3 have to be blown out with a back pack blower as larger blowers can't access these tight spots. The top growth of the turf has stopped, but below ground the roots continue to grow and now is a very important time for us to feed the turf so it can store carbohydrates to see it through the long winter. You may already know the turf is dormant all winter but continues respiration, just like the hibernating bear. So we have been applying fertilizers to all of our turf and the plants take this in even though there is no growth that can be seen. We also apply a winter fungicide to all greens, tees and fairways. This may be the single most important application of the year. Not having a fungicide on the turf would mean complete devastation of the turf as snow moulds would ravage the turf as snow melt begins either during the January thaw we are so used to seeing or in the spring.

We have to be extra vigilant on all the traffic we are putting on the golf course. With no top growth to heal the grass from the traffic we could do a lot of harm which would not recover until soil temperatures return in late May.

We also continue to repair what I call deficiencies. We had a 6 inch drain pipe which we know had been plugged all season, and this is a perfect time to dig it up and find out why it is no longer working. When we got it open, this is what we found,

A mass of tree roots had found it's way in through a connection and had grown to completely block the pipe off. Once we found the blockage, we were able to clear the pipe and reinstall it.

We also excavated along the cart path edge between 14 tee and green as we have a culvert there to allow water to flow under the path which was also completely blocked all year. This 14 inch pipe was not blocked by roots, but by soil, gravel, leaves and sticks. It was so deeply buried we had to excavate down 3 feet to find the bottom of this culvert, then we had to dig a trench so the water could flow away from the area. We will have to install a cedar fence before opening day to protect the area from someone accidently driving into the ditch.

We also removed the wooden pressure treated curbs which were a slip and trip hazard at the 5th tee, 17th tee and near the clubhouse patio. At 5 tee the wood was replaced with the same curb we have installed at other path edge locations around the course. We also added some interlock near the black and blue tee to help shape the path for better cart flow.

5 tee before improvements

5 tee after the curb and interlock installation. In this picture all we need to do to finish is add some soil behind the curb and sod (which was completed on November 23rd).

Interlock and curb installation is also being done at the 18th tee, and below, at the 13th green. You can see the curb starting just behind where the utility cart is parked. We hope all areas will be complete before opening day in April.

Another area most members saw us working on this past fall was at the 15th blue tee. This tee has been enlarged to the east and has had some tee space added to the back giving us some extra yardage. All sod is already in place and it will be in play on opening day 2011.

The support posts on the rain shelter by the 16th tee have begun to deteriorate to a point where the roof is beginning to separate from the rest of the structure. If left unrepaired it will collapse under the weight of the roof.

So we have put in place a plan to shore up the roof, remove the existing posts, install new supports and set the roof down on the new, level support beams. Watch for a blog in the near future on our step by step process which is sure to be a job and a half.

Another job we have been undertaking is repairs to some of the damaged bunker edges such a the one below.

This bunker edge at the 1st green is now six years old. Over this time sand ends up building up on top of the original topsoil changing the grade and causing a weak bunker edge as the turf is growing completely in a sand root zone which is no where as stable as soil. Something as simple as a golfer stepping on this edge can tear the roots and damage the edge as seen in this picture above.
Digging down with a shovel quickly shows that almost 7 inches of bunker sand has been deposited on top of the original soil. This meant that the repair job will take more time and effort than originally anticipated.

Step one is to use a sod cutter to cut away the turf above the area we need to repair. We used a soil probe ahead of this step to determine where the sand is deepest and how large an area we need to open up.

Next, this area is all dug out by hand. The material removed is contaminated and cannot be reused in the bunker. It is all hauled away to our dump.

We install a bunker board between the sand of the bunker and what will be soil and sod.

Then we add soil to level and shape the edge the way we want it and install sod. This picture above is waiting on soil to be added and shaped.
We have done similar repairs to multiple areas on another 8 bunkers.

Another job we have finally gotten to is to lift and level out the interlock on the edge of the patio where the barbecue is used through the season. The bricks below are being lifted so we can add and compact gravel to the low areas removing the trip hazard along the pressure treated retaining wall.

Weather patterns in November can cause us to get behind in many jobs, but this November has been good to us and we are well on our way to completing all these and other jobs. The current outlook for the winter is a return to normal weather patterns.............what ever they are!

Looking forward to seeing many of you at the AGM in December. And if I don't see you, have a great off season, and a healthy happy 2011!

Friday, November 12, 2010

Letter from Canadian Cancer Society

Bob & Joan Store would like to share this letter from the Canadian Cancer Society as a thank you to all members who have supported the Longest Day of Golf over the years.

Tuesday, November 9, 2010

New Member Email

I recieved this email over the weekend from Jeff. I thought I would share it with the membership.


Somehow, I want to say thank you to Whitevale.

My first year of membership has exceeded my expectations.

Everyone has been great, including the maintenance, back-shop, pro-shop and dining room staff. I've thoroughly enjoyed playing golf with the diversity of members at Whitevale. From the younger, near scratch players to the wiley old veterans (like my Dad and the rubber boot guys), they're all gentlemen. I couldn't be prouder to be a member.

My sincere thanks to you, the other Board members, especially Tony & Blair, for all your hard work in giving us a fabulous golf course experience.

Jeff Madeley


On Nov 2nd in late afternoon I was on the back 9 alone. It was breathtaking. I took these photos with a blackberry camera.

Wednesday, October 27, 2010

Whitevale Ladies’ Solheim Cup – October 17, 2010

Purple Team captained by Donna Power were determined to retain the cup, but Fuchsia Team captained by Linda Briggs were equally as determined to win it for the first time!

Final Results: Fuchsia team wins!

Fuchsia Team 12 ½ Purple Team 12 points

Tuesday, October 26, 2010

Ashe Wins

Congratulations to current Whitevale Golf Club President Kevin Ashe for winning his seat as City Councillor for Pickering Ward 1.

Below is an article from the Durham Region News.

PICKERING -- The results are in and Pickering council will look a little different when the group starts its new term in December.

After months of buildup, debates, and campaigning, Pickering residents have chosen who they believe will best represent them at Pickering City and Durham Regional council.

Dave Ryan has reclaimed his seat for the third straight term with 10,361 votes. Maurice Brenner ran a close second with 8,661 ballots cast in his favour.
"It feels great," Mayor Ryan said.
"I thank the people of Pickering because what they did was acknowledge that Pickering can go forward with a positive message."

Voter turnout was up in the 2010 municipal election, with 32.2 per cent of eligible voters heading to the polls. In the end, 20,560 of the 63,938 eligible voters cast their ballots. That's compared to 28 per cent in 2006 when of 65,406 eligible voters, 18,311 voted in that election.

In the 2003 municipal election, there were 63,015 registered voters and 18,051 cast their votes, meaning 28.65 per cent came out to vote.

Rick Johnson lost his Ward 3 Regional seat to his only challenger, Peter Rodrigues. He attended the Pickering Civic Centre as the results came in and took his loss gracefully.

"It's been a really great ride," he said. "I'm very proud of my accomplishments."

He wished Ward 3 constituents and Mr. Rodrigues all the best. He said he's looking forward to living the retired life, and spending more time with his wife and family.

One of the more interesting races of the night was for the seat of Ward 1 City councillor. Kevin Ashe, a former councillor, who lost his seat to Jennifer O'Connell in the 2006 election, was voted in again.

"It's great to be back," he said.

He congratulated his opponents.

"It was an open seat with no incumbent, so there was a good exchange of ideas, and five quality candidates," he said.

Coun. O'Connell beat out incumbent councillor Bonnie Littley for the Ward 1 Regional council seat with 4,065 votes. Her challenger received 3,313 votes.
"It feels amazing but also overwhelming right now," Coun. O'Connell said. "I'm still in shock."

Councillor Doug Dickerson reclaimed his Ward 2 City Council position, and Councillor David Pickles reclaimed his Ward 3 City seat. Ward 2 Regional Councillor Bill McLean went unchallenged, and was acclaimed.

Chris Braney and Paul Crawford were voted in to represent Pickering residents at the Durham District Public School Board.
"I'm very happy to continue the work that we've done in the past four years and I'm looking forward to another term," Mr. Braney said.

Jim McCafferty, chairman of the Durham District Catholic School Board, has also been re-elected, beating out Gino Sgovio. Sylvie A. Landry is the trustee for the French public school board, and Olga Lambert is the trustee for the French catholic school board.

Monday, October 25, 2010

WGC Ryder Cup

Whitevale Golf Club 2010 Ryder Cup Matches Team Europe
Team Canada

Closing Dinner and Dance

2010 Closing Dinner and Dance
This past Saturday the Club held our Closing Dinner and Dance. Over 100 members attending the gala evening to enjoy an exquisite 5 course meal prepared by Chef Andrew. Once the 5th Ave band took the stand around 9pm, the party went into high gear. When Terry Calder and Janet Martinko hit the floor for their version of Dirty Dancing the tone for the night was set. The dance floor was jammed packed all night and when there was no more room on the dance floor, well lets just say a dance floor is where you make it. Of course the bar always seems to be the most happening place at a party.

Of course it wouldn't be a party without Dave smiling and handing out Tequila shots.

Wednesday, October 6, 2010



For any member who has been on the clubs Board of Directors, there is some understanding of the cost associated with running this golf club. Every fall the managers of each department put together a proposed operations, (usually referred to as Op's) and capital budget for the following year. Both budgets are then presented to the finance committee and the Board of Directors for review and approval. The total cost of running the club is very much reflective of the cost to each member.
As we all know the Strategic Plan overwhelmingly supported moving forward with improving all areas of our golf club.

Last fall I requested an increase of slightly over 7% from the 2009 to the 2010 Op's budget. At that time there was a lot of media attention on the recession, how deep it was impacting, and how long it might last. Some members demanded a cap on all budgets. So why did I ask for 7%? And maybe more importantly why did the Board approve the 7% increase? And, how on earth did I come up with these numbers in the first place? Did I ask for 7% figuring the Board would negotiate it down to 3.5% and we would all go home happy? Actually I was able to present the Board with very detailed information about where this money was being spent, and where the extra funds would be needed in the 2010 season. Once the Board understood the costs associated with running every facet of the turf department, it made perfect sense to approve the funds.

So, lets look at some of these details to help you better understand this department and it's budget.

The entire budget is broken down into 32 different line items. The largest single number (or cost) under one line item is labour. The labour cost represents 62% of the entire 2010 turf Op's budget. This labour cost has been very consistent between 60 and 65% of the entire turf budget over the last 7 years, even with the increase to minimum wage.

Of the 32 line items only 7 are over $10,000. These are, in order of highest to lowest: labour, pest control products (which are fungicides for disease control such as dollar spot and snow moulds, herbicides for weed control, and a very minor amount of insecticides for grubs and ants) fertilizers, equipment repairs, fuel and oil, hydro and environmental.

Of the remaining 25 line items, which include such things as safety supplies, flowers, bunker sand, seed/sod, waste/security, irrigation, course furniture (which would be items such as flag sticks, flags, cups, water coolers and cups, hazard paint, bunker rakes, garbage cans, ball washers, paint, spike cleaners, divot bottles ETC...), the average cost per line item for the year is about $3,650.

So lets have a closer look at the labour as it is the single highest cost within the turf Op's budget.

Since each employee is not paid exactly the same, we have to make some assumptions as we begin to build this part of the budget. We know how long (more or less) each job takes to complete. Early in the season when new employees are being trained to perform a new task, the time each job takes is longer than what we budget for.

For instance, it is very consistent for it to take 84 hours, per week to mow greens. These operators also fix ball marks within this time frame, (all the hours required to complete the following tasks include mobilization, refueling and clean up).

How do we know this? Everyday each employee must fill out a sheet of paper we call project hours. This is a record of what job each employee spent his or her day on. This helps us track both the cost of each job, and if the employee was being productive. If we know it takes 2.5 hours to service the water coolers, and we see an employee has recorded they spent 4 hours on that job, we can now investigate to see if they were wasting time and a disciplinary action is required, or if more detailed training is needed to improve productivity.

Now, how did I come up with 84 hours a week to mow greens? Well we multiply 4 people, which take 3 hours a day, by 7 days a week (4 x 3 x 7=84). We could send out 3 people, which we sometimes do, but 3 people can't get the job done properly and safely in 3 hours, since the work force has been reduced by 25% in this case! So now it takes 3 people 4 hours to complete the mow.

Now, we do the same calculation for every job. Mow fairways and approaches, 54 hours a week. Mow primary rough, 80 hours a week, Intermediate rough, 15 hours.
Service water coolers 17.5 hours, change holes 25 hours, roll greens 13.5 hours, fly mow bunkers 24 hours, rake bunkers 112 hours.........and so on for every job.

Now, if we are paying minimum wage to our bunker crew, it costs the club $1,148 in labour per week to get a rake in the bunkers. (112 hours x $10.25 an hour).

It's time consuming to go through all the jobs, and look at the different pay that different employees might be getting for doing the same job. I'll bet there are all kinds of jobs that you know get done, but never really thought of the cost that might be associated with doing them. Like painting hazards, or cleaning divots off the range tee. How about changing the water and soap in ball washers or edging the irrigation sprinklers and yardage plates. The job list is a long one, and we have all seen jobs which we think, "how easy would it be to just go do that"? Which we could, but that means pulling someone off another job, causing us to get behind there. So we are forever prioritizing jobs.

Now, not only do we track man hours required for each job, but the fuel required. We know each time we cut fairways we burn approximately 44 or 45 litres of fuel. And since we know how many hours will be put on the mower a week, we can calculate how often the engine oil and filter will need to be replaced. This is a process repeated for greens mowers, rough mowers, tee mowers and so on.

Now some of you may know I had 23 hourly staff working on the turf department for most of the summer. And many may think this is a pretty good number of bodies, but........did you know of the 23, that 6 only work part time? If we looked at 23 people working 8 hrs a day and a total of 6 hours every other weekend we would have a total of 3,956 man hours a month (during the main season, May through August).

So why have part time people on staff? This gives us more bodies first thing in the morning to get many jobs completed ahead of golfers. This reduces us interfering with your play, but more importantly it makes us more productive. As far as our tracking goes, we know it doubles the time it takes to complete most jobs when we have to watch out for, and get out of the way of members play. And that means doubling the cost to get that job complete. If you have ever played and wondered why you don't see or hardly ever see any work going on, then we are getting the job done efficiently and productively!

Now, getting back to the hours worked...............

In actual fact we only paid out on about 2,900 hours during this same time for actual hours worked. (which is the equivalent of only 16.8 full time people). And when I add up all the hours required to do the main recurring jobs such as the ones mentioned above, we have slightly under 2200 hours required. Which still leaves us with 700 hours a month unaccounted for right? Well..........actually, no. Because within these 700 hours we must magically get this other short list of jobs completed:

-moving traffic control, filling divots, top up divot mix at the back shop and driving range, spray greens, tees and fairways, apply fertilizer, spray moss, round up and ants, line trim under trees, plant and maintain gardens, water sod, seed, trees, flowers and hot spots, pick up sticks, pine cones and branches, blow off greens, tees, fairways and cart paths, vacuum leaves or maple keys, add sand to bunkers, make irrigation repairs or adjust sprinklers, conduct pond maintenance, prune branches or suckers, repairs to benches, water cooler towers, periscope or any other course furniture, move tee blocks, empty garbage's, blade out pot holes, prep the road for asphalt repairs.................... and we have not done any cultural practices yet (such as aerification, verti-cut, top dress, sodding, overseeding, spiking ETC...)!

On top of this we have what we call our Gantt chart. This is a list of jobs that require attention that may not be a regular job, such as drainage repairs or fixing irrigation leaks. There are areas which need bunker boards installed, we have had to do repairs to the bridges and on course bathrooms, there have been sink holes that appear and rocks that find their way to the top of the bunkers. There are blocked drainage pipes, erosion concerns, and things that need painting. I'll even bet most of you can think of a job that needs attention that I haven't mentioned. This list is currently almost two pages long.

Now, getting back to the other parts of the budget.

The other line items are budgeted for by both forecasting, and past history. For instance, the flags on the course have been out there two season, and are looking worn, I know it will cost the club $600 to get a replacement set. We know we want to continue adding long handled and wide head rakes to our bunkers, budget another $1,200 (which only gets us 25 rakes). I know it will cost approximately $1,500 for hazard paint for the year, why? Because I have been tracking it every year for the last 4 and it is relatively consistent at needing 20 to 25 cases per year. It will cost about $4,300 for security in 2011. I will need another $4,500 to pump out the septic tanks on the bathrooms over the season. And, I can tell you we will spend about $1,700 on toilet paper, paper towels and drinking cups on the course next season.

We also have to be aware of the American Dollar as this impacts the cost of most of the items we require. But this is a minor impact. What can and has had major impacts to the budget is when things have major increases that no one anticipated. Over the last few years fuel and oil costs jumped significantly. From 2007 to 2009 we had a greater than 25% increase in our fuel and oil cost. And when the cost of crude oil jumps, it hits the cost of fertilizer! In 2009 we had, never before seen jumps in the cost of all fertilizer products. No one had forecast the increases we experienced. An example of three different fertilizer products we regularly used had jumped in price from June 2008 to July 2009, one went from $24 to $38 per bag, another from $20 to $39 and another from $24 to $45. Reducing the fertilizer to save money is a bad idea as the turf must be fed to be healthy. Not only to stand up to all the traffic the turf takes, but to make it through the stresses of weather patterns. Had we reduced fertilizer rates last year to save money we would have had significant turf loss last winter because of the severity of the winter. Just like a bear feeding in the fall getting ready for hibernation, if he does not get food into him he will starve to death over the winter. Not feeding our turf correctly will result in the death of significant amount of turf in the heat of summer or cold of winter.

For any of us to simply say "cut the budget" would be miss management at it's worst.

If on the other hand the club was in financial trouble (which it most certainly is not)and we needed to cut costs, then we could sit down and determine what services we could reduce, which would in turn reduce costs, but not jeopardize the health of the turf ecosystem.

If for instance all members took extra time to carefully rake the bunkers, so the turf department could reduce our scheduled maintenance to one raking per week, I could save the club in the neighbourhood of $25,000 over the year.

Now then............ putting the time it takes to complete each job, multiplied by the wage paid and adding the materials required for that job comes up with a cost associated with each thing we do, or each thing we want to get accomplished. Throw in "Large Marge" to send us jobs we had not planned or budgeted for like wind storms, torrential rains or ice build up, and now we have to make changes to keep everything running smooth.............And within budget.

As our fiscal year ends on October 31, we are almost through the 2010 budget. And how did we do up until the end of September? Well we are currently $18,292 under budget. And I am forecasting at the end of October we will be about 1.5% under budget for the year.

So take a minute to think about 2011. If you were building a budget, would you think we will have one storm a month which will require us to fix the bunkers, or more?

Do you think we need to budget for one wind storm for the year, or one a week? Will it be the worst drought in 100 years requiring more hand watering than ever, or a wet year?

Will the disease pressure be more than usual or less? What about equipment break downs, will we need to do any major engine or transmission repairs? How many new employees will we have to train? Returning staff can start work with minimal training and be productive immediately, but new staff take significant training before they are self sufficient and productive.

Hopefully you now have an appreciation of the work involved with putting together a realistic Op's budget, and a bigger appreciation of the work it takes to maintain the course while being safe, productive and delivering a quality product...................and not go over budget.

Saturday, October 2, 2010

Ladies Closing Field Day

The cooler temperatures and overcast skies din't stop the Women of Whitevale from teeing it up for the Closing Field Day. 1st place team of Lynda Lennon, Teri Courchene and Jane Moser
2nd place team of Kitty Braid, Norma Columbus, Melody Robinson and Betty Lemon
3rd place Team of Janet Martinko, Sue Dickenson, Lisa Brewer and Michelle Miles
4th Place Team of Karen Parson, Lynne Downey, Kathy McGilton and Gabrielle Muller

Career Round

Congratulations to Walt Lemon for shooting his career round of 71 on September 19, 2010

Monday, September 20, 2010


Halloween in September?

This past Friday marked the last Mix N' Mingle for 2010 and the last for our current Social Committee team led by Social and House Director Debbie Couch. As evident of these pictures, those in attendance had some crazy wild fun.
Debbie Couch in her grand finale as Social Director.
Run DMC we think

Georgia and Meri as part of the characters from the game clue.

The STAFF - always in the spirit of the club's social events

They say a picture is worth a 1,000 words. Which is great because we have nothing to say about this ballerina
Ready for kickoff
just clowning around.

Wednesday, September 15, 2010



I can't tell you how many times I have heard a golfer say, "Just when the greens were good, you go and wreck them by punching them full of holes and cover them in sand"!
Aerification (or coring) is a very long and hard task that I for one would be happy if it was never required. But there are many reasons why aerification must be done. I can simply say it is for the health of the turf. But more specifically it does many things. It removes thatch which naturally builds up over time and if left to increase will eventually be thick enough the roots will be growing completely in the thatch and not in soil. This would result in the death of the turf when any weather extremes such as heat, drought or ice build up happened. Thatch will also harbour insects and increases the greens susceptibility to diseases. Aerification also helps to increase the oxygen levels in the soil. The roots of the grass need oxygen just as much as you or I. In addition to these, aerification also allows for better infiltration of water and fertilizer to the roots, it reduces compaction caused by equipment and foot traffic, and it helps to level out the playing surface from ball marks and hole changing. It will also remove layering in the soil, improve the grain on the surface, and it even firms the green which will help to improve the putting and the greens ability to better stand up to ball marks.

The first step in this process is not actually punching holes! The first thing we do is send a person out to use a squeegy knocking the dew off the turf. This help reduce the time it takes for the plugs to dry. Wet plugs tend to act like mud and are messy and hard to work with. This person also removes the flag and cup, then marks all irrigation heads for the tractor operator to easily see. Then we start punching holes. We have the option of using anywhere from 1/4 inch tines up to 5/8th inch. Small tines tend to heal quicker, but do not remove as much thatch. We have used 1/2 inch tines this time out. The forward speed of the tractor dictates the spacing of the holes. Once again it would be quicker for the process and for healing if we went with further spacing, but again, that would not remove as much thatch, So, spacing is set at 1 and a half inches.

Cores are shoveled off the green surface by hand. There are core harvester machines that would save this back breaking process, but every time I have used them they dig into the putting surface leaving mechanical damage that is slow to heal. So, plastic snow shovels it is!
(By the way, a special thank you to my staff for not telling me where to go when you were asked to do this task!!)

Once the cores are off the green surface, crews shovel them up into utility vehicles and haul them away. This material is stock piled for use in other projects as the soil itself is very usable.

Both fertilizer and Bent grass seed is applied to the green.

A layer of sand, or "top dressing" is put down. If too little sand is applied, we end up with open holes, requiring us to go back and add more sand. Too much sand requires manual removal and is obviously wasteful, so having a keen eye as it is being applied is critical. The sand is left to dry so it can be worked into the holes. On the days we punched clouds slowed this process. Having too much sun and high temperatures can cause the turf to go into heat stress and die. Thus, having the adequate balance between warm and dry but not too warm and sunny is always a concern. The application of sand is the single slowest process of this day. The hopper usually empties between two to three passes, then has to be driven back to the parking lot to fill up with sand again.

Once the sand has had a chance to dry a brush is pulled over the sand knocking it into the open holes. Usually three times over in slightly different directions will fill most holes.

We then send a triplex over the green with special brushes which will pick up debris left behind from the process.

A roller is now sent out to settle out any high spots caused from the tines being pulled up and out of the ground. This also firms up the entire surface.

Now we use a tool called a Level Lawn to push any excess sand around to fill any left over holes or to remove extra sand completely off the surface.

A new hole is cut.

Water is applied to reduce the stress to the grass by adding moisture to the dry warm sand and to bring the temperature down. And finally the course is back in play. As always we struggle with course maintenance procedures and access to the course for our members. Although aeration is a painfull process I hope the vast majority of members understand it is a neccesity.